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Snowy owl genus?!
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Tyto, chronos



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Derry Township, PA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Snowy owl genus?! Reply with quote

I just heard the shocking news that the Snowy Owl has been moved from the Nyctea genus to the Bubo genus!!! Meaning we now have to call it Bubo, scandiaca!!! That's going to take some getting used to.
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owlpages
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's right. and because of Latin grammar rules, we have to ad an 's' on the end, so it is Bubo scandiacus.
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Tyto, chronos



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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Location: Derry Township, PA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

omg!! That is so funny, my book is wrong because it is spelled scandiaca in it. What a bunch of n00bs that wrote that book lol. Thank you, for correcting me.
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Jester



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why????

what was wrong with the original classification?
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Adain



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa! That's really strange. o: Never thought of it as a Bubo, and I certainly don't now!

Adain
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Soren129



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m not suprised.... their siamler in size...... arent they?..... anyway..... they look alot alike..... you know GHO & snowys...... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Tyto, chronos



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently, genetics (and probably cladistics) provides concrete evidence that Snowys are very closely related to GHOs and other bubos. It's strange, I know, because you would never think of it to look at the two. But if you analyze the skeletons and also the feather pattern on the wing, then you will start to see the similarities.
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Soren129



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyto, chronos wrote:
Apparently, genetics (and probably cladistics) provides concrete evidence that Snowys are very closely related to GHOs and other bubos. It's strange, I know, because you would never think of it to look at the two. But if you analyze the skeletons and also the feather pattern on the wing, then you will start to see the similarities.





still...not very suprsing!!!!!!!!!!! Razz Razz Razz ptttt
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tanja sova



Joined: 04 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm.....

I have a question: Why is Tyto, chronos written with comma between Tyto and chronos?

In fact perhaps more important question is why you wrote Bubo, scandiaca with comma as well between the names of genus and species?

It is not usual, I thought that Tyto, chronos was sort of personal stuff, but in Bubo, scandiaca it is repeated: it can be not so good example when young readers might have impression that is the rule, and it is not.

On the other hand, Linneaus at first discribed certain species of duck that have strong sexual dimorphism as two separate species for female and for male. No wonder that there have been a lot of misunderstandings since first taxonomy rules were based on morphology, whilst new findings are based on DNA similarity (in fact using mitochondrial DNA and some other sequences od DNA such as those coding cytochrome, that are less prone to mutation comparing to the rest of DNA). That is the proof how far back (in Daltons, and estimated in time scale) separation of lines might have happened.

Why Bubo? For the advantage in taxonomy nomenclature goes to the first one described name, in this case it is Bubo.

Hope it was not too complicated Confused

Cheers

Tanja Cute Owl 2
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Soren129



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanja sova wrote:
Hmmmm.....

I have a question: Why is Tyto, chronos written with comma between Tyto and chronos?

In fact perhaps more important question is why you wrote Bubo, scandiaca with comma as well between the names of genus and species?

It is not usual, I thought that Tyto, chronos was sort of personal stuff, but in Bubo, scandiaca it is repeated: it can be not so good example when young readers might have impression that is the rule, and it is not.

On the other hand, Linneaus at first discribed certain species of duck that have strong sexual dimorphism as two separate species for female and for male. No wonder that there have been a lot of misunderstandings since first taxonomy rules were based on morphology, whilst new findings are based on DNA similarity (in fact using mitochondrial DNA and some other sequences od DNA such as those coding cytochrome, that are less prone to mutation comparing to the rest of DNA). That is the proof how far back (in Daltons, and estimated in time scale) separation of lines might have happened.

Why Bubo? For the advantage in taxonomy nomenclature goes to the first one described name, in this case it is Bubo.

Hope it was not too complicated Confused

Cheers

Tanja Cute Owl 2





was pretty complicated Twisted Evil Cute Owl Mr. Green
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Tyto22



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tanja, I was meaning to look it up, I know mammal taxonomy and the general stuff but don't know the birds specifically. I wouldn't consider snowys to be Bubo tho! They seem different enough to be their own little group, but genetics is more reliable!
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Laughing Owl Lover



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its wierd because I imagine bubo owls to have "horns"...
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Tyto, chronos



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Derry Township, PA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question about the commas, Tanja, I thought this was the rule. capitalize genus, then comma, then lower case species. (Bubo, scandiaca). My user name is just the fake name of an abstract owl that does not really exist. A Tyto, chronos; which is complete and utter nonsense. Is that not how scientific names are written?

Also, your analysis on separation of lines makes total sense. Obviously, the only reason that snowys were given their own genus of "Nyctea" was that they looked a good bit different from other bubos.
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owlboy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL wrote:
Quote:
its wierd because I imagine bubo owls to have "horns"...


Actually, you are correct. Bubo owls are considered "Horned Owls". That is probably why the Snowy Owl was originally was placed in it's own genus. They just did not know where to place the Snowy Owl. If you look at it from the criteria of the owl must be a "Horned Owl" to be a bubo, then the Snowy didn't fit in. But back in 1994 (?) DNA test showed that the Snowy was very closely related to the "Horned Owls" (bubo). Now, Snowy Owls are considered Eagle Owls in the Artic. If you look at the head of a Eagle Owl and a Snowy, they have very similar shaped heads. You can see the similarity.

When you look at DNA of humans versus owls, you also see evolution occuring 20 times faster. Human's DNA mutates approximately every 400 years, where owl's DNA mutate every 20 years. This allows owls to evole so much faster. For Snowy Owls to survive in the Artic they needed to adapt and evolve to their environment. Just because Owls DNA mutates 20 times faster does not mean that their DNA is special. They just have a significantly shorter time between generations.
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tanja sova



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here are some more comments:

Names: it differs when it comes to plants, fungi and animals how scientist make agreement of the way of rules for different taxa. So, from the way name is written in animals, for example, it is the rule that Genus and lower categories, such as species and subspecies are written in italic style, whilst everything above genus is in regular print. Also, if you have found somewhere in index that there was a comma between, it was certainly not by the rules, yet just exception or order in a book or whatever it was. Examples: Asio otus otus, A. o. wilsonianus - as you can see ASIO is genus and is written in cursive (italic) with capital letter at the beginning. Species name otus is in small italic print and that is the rule, nothing in between, also with subspecies. But if you short, like in later example, then you just do first letters with dot after.

In forestry, scientists are giving italic style in some other categories, and definitely in forest communities such as Querceto petraea-Carpinetum type of forest association etc... But none of those are with comma between genus and species.

Regarding being up-to-date with all new stuff is hard task, no doubt. Still new species to discover, not to mention older ones to redefine.... not only mammals, Tyto, all of them!

Owlboy said something very important - the rate of reproduction. I really need to say it here - perhaps a little bit of getting away from the main subject, but since we stepped into it, here it is:

very often we keep forgetting the relativity of life span and time needed for new born to be mature for reproduction. Rodents are in average mature in age of 2 months! In fact, there is not much of the difference in major of mutation rate in pure DNA (there is in individual and species to species difference in some sort), but much more in the overall amount of AT and GC pairs, where AT due to 2 strength hydrogen bond among are far weaker comparing to GC that has 3 hydrogen bonds holding them together. Now, all sorts of factors, UV light, free radicals, vast amount of DNA-active compounds have this disturbing effect in portions of DNA containing higher content of AT pairs than those with high ratio of GC pairs, leading to higher incidence of mutation wherever AT is in dominance.

The more of new generations are produced, the shorter is time of getting into reproduction cycle, the more mutations are finding their way and therefore line is evolving far faster comparing to those with long time of juvenile period prior to getting into reproduction cycle.

Now, for those who didn't give up reading so far, shall I mention viruses??? Those that infest one single cell, subdue it and force to make only copies of viruses, releasing THOUSANDS of copies each time, and with geometric progression you can only imagine how many mutations are in just one single cold or flu one catch??? That is why is it so hard to make proper vaccines for certain strains of viruses...

For the end you can play around in your mind, imagining that instead of viruses you can have thousands of owls in each cycle, and in a couple of days perhaps even a new species Very Happy

All those who are still away, wish all the best Wink

Tanja Cute Owl 2
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